Founder, The Roots of Progress (rootsofprogress.org)
jasoncrawford
Karma: 498
I liked Vitalik’s post and generally agree
OK, sorry!
Good point, I agree! Something important to creating the right research lab team and culture.
Hmm, I don’t agree with how you are characterizing my assumptions about human nature. I’m not assuming that scientists are after money or prestige. I assume most of them, or at least the best of them, are motivated by curiosity, the desire to discover and to know, and the value of scientific knowledge for humanity.
Re accountability, I frankly think we could do with a bit less of it. Accountability is always in tension with research freedom.
Re people performing for their superiors: I actually think scientists performing for their managers would be a much healthier model than what we have today, which is scientists performing for their grant committees. I have another piece on this that I plan to publish soon.
Curiosity is already a very strong motivator, we just need to enable it and get out of the way. Give scientists funding without making them narrowly constrain their goals, dial down their ambition, or spend half their time writing grants. Then give them the research freedom to pursue that curiosity wherever it leads. It’s not easy but it is pretty simple.
Good question, I don’t know. People have been talking about “progress studies” or the “progress movement” or “progress community”, and others have talked about the “abundance agenda”, but none of those lend themselves to personal labels/identities…
I have never particularly liked the term “techno-optimism” anyway. “Optimism” on its own is confusing enough. “Techno-optimism” implies that not only do you think we can solve all problems, but that technology will be the solution to all of them, which is not really true.
Thanks, good point about the flow here.
Thanks Robert. I think progress studies needs a more well-defined value system. I have gestured at “humanism” as the basis for this, but it needs much more.
I agree that Rand’s ideas are important here, particularly her view of creative/productive work as a noble activity and of scientists, inventors and business leaders as heroic figures.
I wonder if there is also a psychological factor at work. Something along the lines of: a major world crisis, especially one that causes a lot of deaths, makes you think about the ephemeral nature of life and what’s really important, and you either decide to have kids or to stop putting it off. Imagine someone reading about deaths among the elderly and thinking, “I really want Mom and Dad to meet their grandkids—better get on it.”
Curious if Claudia Goldin’s work is relevant here?
The Shirky Principle: “Institutions will try to preserve the problem to which they are the solution.”
Thanks. What I see is that this paper specifies “a non-naive precautionary principle” or “an intelligent application of the precautionary principle,” which implies something about what the precautionary principle might end up being in practice without those qualifiers…
FWIW, this Jones & Romer paper names “accelerating growth” as one of the key stylized facts that growth models should explain. See pp. 13–16.
One example of accelerating progress they give is from Nordhaus’s famous “price of light” paper:
Between 38,000 B.C. and 1750 B.C., the real price of light fell by a total of about 17%, based on the transition from animal or vegetable fat to sesame oil as a fuel. The use of candles and whale oil reduced the price by a further 87% by the early 1800s, an average annual rate of decline of 0.06% per year. Between 1800 and 1900, the price of light fell at an annual rate that was 38 times faster, 2.3%, with the introduction of the carbon filament lamp. And then in the 20th century, the price of light has fallen at the truly remarkable pace of 6.3% per year with the use of tungsten filaments and fluorescent lighting.
That said, I agree that it’s possible that the future could hold something different, and the demographic transition is a good reason why. Chad Jones has drawn attention to this. We need more people and more brains to continue growth. I tend to think we will solve this by (1) solving the fertility crisis and getting back to high rates of population growth, and/or (2) using AI to substitute for human researchers.
No, you’re looking at too short a timescale [edit: to be clear, this is referring to your specific point about constant growth rates over the last 200 years]. Zoom out to the last few thousand, or few tens of thousand years.
See this from Paul Romer: https://paulromer.net/speeding-up-and-missed-opportunities-evidence/
Key excerpt:
My conviction that the rate of growth in GDP per capita at the technological frontier had to be increasing over time sprang from a simple calculation. Suppose the modern rate of growth of real GDP per capita (that is the growth rate after taking out the effects of inflation) is equal to 2% per year and that income per capita in year 2000 is $40,000. If this rate had prevailed for the last 1000 years, then in the year 1000, income per capita measured in the purchasing power of dollars today would have been $0.0001, or 0.01 cents. This is way too small to sustain life. If the growth rate had been falling over time instead of remaining constant, then the implied measure of GDP per capita in the year 1000 would have been even lower. …
Reasonable people can differ about what the future holds, but the simple calculation that first got me thinking about this (and which no doubt influenced how Maddison did the backward projections to come up with his estimates) leaves no room for doubt about what happened in the past. The rate of growth of GDP per capita has increased over time. The rate of progress in standards of living has increased even more.
[Further edit for clarity:] I think your contention is: there are basically two growth regimes. There is a low-growth regime, which most countries were in for most of history. Then there is a high-growth regime, which countries enter once they industrialize. This is an acceleration but it’s a one-time thing. Any seeming longer-term, more-spread-out acceleration is just a compositional effect.
That is a reasonable hypothesis, but I think it’s wrong. It may be true that there are discrete growth regimes, but I think there are more than two of them, historically. Progress was extremely slow in stone age. It sped up somewhat in the early agricultural age. It sped up more in the modern era after Gutenberg, Bacon, etc. It sped up more after industrialization. And I think it will speed up still more in the future—possibly after we cross some next threshold, whatever that is exactly.
Absolutely true that new subdomains open up new areas of low-hanging fruit. It is the “stacked S-curve” model.
Not immediately clear whether what this means for β>0. I think this model may be addressed in Bloom et al, or maybe in an earlier paper by Jones. I vaguely recall that it doesn’t make a difference whether you analyze things in terms of the subdomains or the economy at large, but I don’t have the exact reference at hand.
No. The Precautionary Principle doesn’t just mean “take precautions when warranted.” No one would be against that. It has become more like a bias towards inaction, regardless of cost/benefit calculations. See Ridley’s quote above, about how this “superficially sensible idea” was transformed into something irrational.
Haha, fair point! (Although I would suggest that the most productive way to do that would be to pen an opposing manifesto.)
To be exact, what he said was:
Our present society has been subjected to a mass demoralization campaign … under varying names like … “Precautionary Principle” [etc.]
I interpret that to mean not that he’s against precaution, but that he thinks terms like that are being used to promote bad ideas.
Also, the Precautionary Principle is objectively bad:
As we look back on the failed civilizations of the past, we can see that they were so poor, their technology was so feeble, and their explanations of the world so fragmentary and full of misconceptions that their caution about innovation and progress was as perverse as expecting a blindfold to be useful when navigating dangerous waters. Pessimists believe that the present state of our own civilization is an exception to that pattern. But what does the precautionary principle say about that claim? Can we be sure that our present knowledge, too, is not riddled with dangerous gaps and misconceptions? That our present wealth is not pathetically inadequate to deal with unforeseen problems? Since we cannot be sure, would not the precautionary principle require us to confine ourselves to the policy that would always have been salutary in the past—namely innovation and, in emergencies, even blind optimism about the benefits of new knowledge?
–David Deutsch, The Beginning of Infinity
The EU had by now installed the precautionary principle as a guiding light. This superficially sensible idea—that we should worry about unintended consequences of innovation—morphed into a device by which activists prevent life-saving new technologies displacing more dangerous ones. As formally adopted by the European Union in the Lisbon Treaty, the principle holds the new to a higher standard than the old and is essentially a barrier to all innovations, however safe, on behalf of all existing practices, however dangerous. This is because it considers the potential hazards, but not the likely benefits of an innovation, shifting the burden of proof to an innovator to prove that its product will not cause harm, but not allowing that innovator to demonstrate that it might cause good, or might displace a technology that already causes harm.
–Matt Ridley, How Innovation Works
Tyler Cowen did something like this for covid: https://marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2020/03/1-million-plus-in-emergent-ventures-prizes-for-coronavirus-work.html